soy alternatives

topic posted Thu, July 28, 2005 - 10:55 PM by  offlineSolenne
Os i've been learnign about how soy isn't very good for you- especially processed soy. i've decided to try to cut down on my soy consumption. As a vegetarian- who eats occasional seafood- i'd like some suggestions for soy alternatives- mainly tofu alternatives.
posted by:
Solenne
California
  • Re: soy alternatives

    Sat, July 30, 2005 - 8:10 PM
    They're are various reasons- i liearned about them from this NPR interview and then i google searched it. It's too much info for me to articultate right now. Listen to this: s26.yousendit.com/d.aspx I'd love to have a discussion about it more.
    • AJ
      AJ
      offline 20

      Re: soy alternatives

      Sat, July 30, 2005 - 9:55 PM
      Name two.

      If we don't know why you object to soy, we can't gaurantee that our alternatives won't be equally objectionable.

      You're link dinnae work.
      • Re: soy alternatives

        Sat, July 30, 2005 - 10:20 PM
        I personally don't think soy is bad. The only bad thing seems to be that their has been rain forest that has been deforested in Brazil, which is easy to get around, you just have to find out if it is domestic, and the other thing would be to make sure that it is organic to avoid GMO issues.

        I usually avoid meat, and what I usually do is change sources of protein on a frequent bases, something people should always do with food, regardless of diet.

        There is a whole list of legumes you can eat, such as lentils and beans that are rich in protein, and Seitan is also a good source of protein.
        • Unsu...
           

          Re: soy alternatives

          Sun, July 31, 2005 - 5:37 AM
          i've read some negative feedback about soy because it contains a relatively high amount of plant estrogens. but so far i haven't seen any study that convinced me that it will do harm. i LOVE soy. it's frustrating and difficult sometimes to have to try and sift trough the spectrum of information on nutrition and health.
          • AJ
            AJ
            offline 20

            Re: soy alternatives

            Sun, July 31, 2005 - 11:08 AM
            The most damaging soy data was the Hawaiian dementia in men study.
            users.erols.com/igoddard/soy.htm

            Suspects include phytoestrogens from unfermented soya. Tofu bad, edamame bad, tempeh good, if that's the case. But there's been no follow up study to my knowledge.

            If soya phytoestrogens contribute to pathology in people, you prolly have to eat a lot of it on a regular baisis, it may be estrogenic type effects in men and/or block estrogenic effects in women (blocks receptors from receiving real estrogen). Nobody knows. Lots of supposition.
    • Re: soy alternatives

      Wed, August 3, 2005 - 9:26 PM
      Now i'm having difficulty getting the link to work too- but i'm working on it. So last time i listened to the program i took notes and looked at some of the references- which are many. I'm still looking into the references but so far the reports look pretty acurate.Anyway here are my notes:
      Now i'm having difficulty getting it to work too- but i'm working on it. SO last time i listened to the program i took notes and looked at some of the references- which are many. I'm still looking into the references but so far the reports look pretty acurate. Anyway here are my notes: Here’s what I learned from the KPFA program Your own Health and Fitness with Lana Burman. In the program she interviews Kaayla Daniel PhD who wrote The Whole Soy Story .
      FDA lists soy on the poisonous plant database with reference to studies that warn about growth problems, mineral malexorptions, endocrine disruption
      Soy protein isolate was originally developed only to be used as a binder sealer for cardboard boxes and also as a fertilizer.
      People were concerned by the leaching of carcinogen the nitrocinine toxin licinoalonine into the food.
      Soy is protected by big food interest that controls what the consumer learns about its health effects.
      Soy is one of the most processed food

      O*ld fashioned fermented organic soy products are ok – miso, tempeh, tofu.

      *Concerns are soy protein isolate, soy protein concerntrate, textured vegetable protein…

      *In Japan where the most soy has been traditionally consumed - the Japenese consumed on average 36grams or 9 tablespoons a day- which is less than may people consume in the US

      *GMO soy is the #1 industry responsible for rainforest devastation for farming

      Recent studies show that soy protein has a bad effect of sperm making males more infertile

      Dr. Isazuki – top thyroid Dr did a study introducing people 30 grams a day of a pickled soy bean product- and after two months many of them showed symptoms of hyperthyroid and hypothyroid

      Study of Japenese men showed that that the ones who has the most soy had the most cognitive damage- excellent study

      *Soybean contains a number of antinutrients- particularly difficult to eliminate through processes – tripson inhibitor- tripson helps digest protein- main reason many people have digestion problems when eatting soy products

      Soy also contains Pytates- they interfer with mineral absorptions (calcium and zinc) and they need to properly processed to get rid of it

      Industrial processing to rid soy of antinutrients and phytates are difficult to eliminate and use harmful chemicals (like hexane)

      Soy protein isolate has many harmful chemicals added.
      Most soy milk has many harmful additives- carrageen a thickener can be harmful to digestion, vitamin D2 which adds calcium is linked to many health problems

      The soy bean likes to such up flouride from water- which it gets while growing and often through processing

      The imitation meat products are the worst –38 petroleum products in processed soy used to act like ground beef

      Modern soy protein products often get nitrosimines – carcinogens
      and toxins like licinoalonine

      Soy foods linked to vulvodenia –which makes sex painful for women

      Soy has a huge amount of estrogen and can harm the thyroid

      A number of U. of Illinois studies show that soy accelerate the growth of breast cancer

      Soy is linked to early puberty and erectile disfunction and it reduced labido

      Textured plant protein, hydrolyzed plant protein, buleon all contain soy









      • AJ
        AJ
        offline 20

        Re: soy alternatives

        Thu, August 4, 2005 - 3:03 PM
        First off, thank you for the detailed response.

        Tofu is not fermented and contains phytoestrogens, including genistein.

        The concern about pathological effects from unfermented soy products stems from the presence of estrogen mimicing compounds. In high quantities they *may* block regular female estrogen receptors in young women. This might be 'good' if you had breast cancer and the cancer was stimulated by estrogen
        jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/con...84/1/192
        We don't really know. They *may* provide estrogen-like stimulation in post-menopausal women. We don't really know. They are *speculated* to to be the cause of the incidences in elderly male Japanese-American dementia in the the Oahu study. Tofu was the bogeyman there.

        The Oahu study is far from conclusive. Its more a curiosity at this point. I've read a couple rebuttals to the regression analysis (you can always fault that), but those rebuttals also appeared tinged with pro-soy sentiment.
        users.erols.com/igoddard/soy.htm

        > Recent studies show that soy protein has a bad effect of
        > sperm making males more infertile
        Citation?
        I'd view this as a good thing if it were true, btw. Personal prejudice.

        > Dr. Isazuki ... hypothyroid
        Having some trouble finding any papers by anyone named Isazuki in regards to soy or hypothyrioidism. I tried Sazuki too. I got some rat studies that come up negative, but that's all.

        > tripson inhibitors
        Having some trouble finding anything pointing to the level of trypson inhibitors in soy as detrimental to human health.

        > Pytates- they interfer with mineral absorptions (calcium and zinc)
        Phytates are found in lots of high fiber foods, like bran. Fermenting, or letting your grain or legume sprout will greatly reduce their content. Some people believe phytates act as a good antioxident.
        www.easygreen.com/articles/...toxins.php

        > Industrial processing to rid soy of antinutrients and phytates are difficult to eliminate and use
        > harmful chemicals (like hexane)
        You could totally replace "soy" with "food" in the above sentence.

        > The imitation meat products are the worst
        I completely agree. They taste terrible.

        > Soy foods linked to vulvodenia
        > Soy is linked to early puberty and erectile disfunction and it reduced labido
        IIRC this is all wild speculation.

        > licinoalonine carcinogen
        I'm guessing I can't find much on this 'cause you spelled it wrong.
        However I found this on 3-MCPD:
        www.food.gov.uk/multimedia...productsqa/

        Okay, so I nitpicked a little. I could prolly stand to walk down to the bookstore and read this woman's book. Most of the arguments come down against unfermented soy products, like tofu and stuff.
        There's not much empirical evidence (other than the Oahu study) that soy effects you negatively, but there are some hypothetical dangers based on what we know about endocrine problems.

        If you were the conservative sort who didn't like messing with food that hasn't been tested by two to four thousand years of R&D you might avoid it. This sucks, because soybeans are really good in mango quesedillas. Or you might just avoid making it a large part of your diet. Soy pathology may be hard to detect because many of the consumers are vegetarians who have overall fewer health issues than the hellishly bad Regular American Diet.
        Mmmm yummy tempeh.

        Eat fish. No, don't. The oceans are totally (catastrophically?) depleted. Don't eat fish. Leave what's left for me. Next topic: Mercury.
        • Re: soy alternatives

          Fri, August 5, 2005 - 12:10 PM
          wow thanks for the response- yeah my spelling is atrocious- which is probably why i couldn't find more info on certain things. As for the tripson inhibitors- it's not bad for your health- it just makes it harder to digest protein- which really bums me out. I try to have a high protein diet since i'm hypoglycemic and i'm looking for more protein sources- i started eatting seafood again just to get more variety of food- and mercury would be something good to look into. Yeah thee's still more reasearch that need to be done- but from what I learned so far it's enough for me to cut back on my soy consumption and to look at ingredients more.
  • Re: soy alternatives

    Tue, September 13, 2005 - 9:33 PM
    here's another link to check out
    www.westonaprice.org/mythstr.../mtsoy.html
    • -
      -
      offline 495

      Re: soy alternatives

      Tue, January 10, 2006 - 10:23 AM
      I'm a holistic nutritionist, and I work with many different kinds of people...

      and one of the major issues that I contend with in my clients is food allergies.

      soy bean, along with wheat, yeast, and dairy, regularly comes up with my clients...soy bean comes up mostly in those with mediterranean decent-

      soy is a GREAT food, for those who can tolerate it...I personally have a HORRIBLE soy allergy...but I love miso!!! so its very complicated.

      I'd say about half or the peopll I have worked with in the past 2 years have a problem with soy...

      from professional experience, I have found that many people with european background, I'd guess maybe half of them, would have some kind of intolerence to soy-it has not been indigenous to those cultures, so that may be a reason-same reason why dairy (cows milk) allergies are more prevelent in those with african decent-this is based mostly on my clinical and proffessional experience.

      there is NOTHING WRONG with soy, per se, but if you have an intolerence or an allergy to it, then, just like anything else, it can be VERY bad for you-and soy bean, processed or other wise, is one of the top 7 major food allergens (wheat (gluten), dairy, soy, corn, yeast, peanut, beef-are the big 7-ironically, those are probably the most consumed foods in america)

      if you are going to eat soy bean, do so by eating it in the form of fresh tofu and fermented products, like high qualty miso-and if you are vegan/vegetarian, I would rotate soy with other beans like chick peas, kidney beans, adzuki, and others.

      soy is a tough protein to break down, even if you don't have an intolerence-so if it is new to you, then I'd slowly integrate it so you won't build any klind of intolerence to it...

      and I wouldn't recommend to anybody anything processed-and the "soy nuggets" and "soy dogs" et al...are just artificial mass produced "health food"...just not healthy for you (nor do I find them very tasty)...

      and as far as soy milk and soy butters and soy oil...very controvercial, and that is another topic for another day.

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